The following is a transcript of an interview with Reps. Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio, and Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Jan. 5, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning and welcome to “Face the Nation.” As we start the brand new 12 months, the primary few days of January are already proving and offering huge challenges, each right here in Washington and across the nation, particularly by way of safety. We start right this moment with House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Turner and Ranking Member Jim Himes, who be a part of us in a bipartisan trend. Thank you for doing so and for becoming a member of us right this moment.
REP. MIKE TURNER: Thanks for having us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So now we have, Chairman, heightened safety at U.S. airports, on trains, navy bases. This bulletin that went out not too long ago warning of maybe retaliatory assaults, copycat assaults from that New Orleans automotive ramming incident. How ought to Americans perceive the risk atmosphere we’re in?
REP. TURNER: Right, proper. Well, it is definitely very tough, and our coronary heart breaks as we consider what occurred simply after New Year’s Eve, on New Year’s Day. The- what we all know that the FBI director has mentioned is that we- we’re in a heightened, threatened atmosphere. We see from, after all, what occurred in New Orleans. We have the specter of those that could be lone wolves, these people who could be, because the self-declared terrorist has indicated, impressed by ISIS, by terrorist threats. We even have these who- who’re right here, who’ve come throughout the border, that the director has mentioned are affiliated with terrorist teams, organizations outdoors of the nation who wish to do Americans hurt. Those people nonetheless pose a risk to Americans and to the United States. The director, the FBI, native legislation enforcement are persevering with to work to attempt to discover them and attempt to reduce the chance, however definitely presently, as we go into the inauguration for Donald Trump, the place we even have state actors like Iran who- the place now we have in-custody people who’ve come right here with the acknowledged function to- to assassinate as part of a plot, to have been alleged to perpetrate a plot to assassinate Donald Trump. We have a lot of actors that pose a threat and a risk to Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Himes, ISIS has not claimed duty for this New Orleans attacker. He did pledge allegiance in these social media movies, however Homeland Security, so far as now we have heard from them, mentioned there is no linkage to the US border. There isn’t any linkage established to a overseas actor at this level. Is this simply an instance of somebody with psychological well being points selecting violence?
REP. JIM HIMES: Well- and I’m glad you mentioned that, as a result of there was a lot misinformation proper out of the field, as a result of these assaults occurred on the identical time. You know, there was all types of stuff on social media about how they had been coordinated and collectively, and that the Las Vegas, with New Orleans, you recognize, the New Orleans- Jabbar, the attacker there, clearly had himself affiliated with ISIS. Now, what we have to know and what- to this point, there isn’t a proof that that is the case, however we have to know whether or not that particular person was intentionally tasked. Again, no proof that he was. And after all, we always see these lone wolf attackers who get radicalized, possibly on social media, possibly in another location. And- and you recognize, I will surely agree with Mike’s characterization of the hazard on the market. But simply so as to add that, as Americans take into consideration the people who find themselves defending them, and I believe the chairman would agree with me on this, the individuals and belongings that we put up towards this risk are the very best on the planet. It can be true that lone wolf attackers, that’s a person who’s not speaking with someone overseas, who’s not sending texts or sending emails, are terribly tough to detect. And you recognize, although our individuals are the very best on the planet, that’s onerous to seek out. And by the way in which, there is a position for individuals, you recognize. In New York City, when you go on the subway, it says, when you see one thing, say one thing. And so there is a position for everyone on the market, you recognize, to assist attempt to clear up, to assist attempt to cease these sorts of lone wolf assaults.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But as one official mentioned to me, this is not an issue you clear up with one other plane provider to the Middle East. Some of this stuff run deeper. In phrases of the lone wolf factor, that is the time period you’ve got used. How do you diagnose and take care of that, Chair Turner, if individuals are in a position to be radicalized on-line? And whether or not it is political violence or simply one other type of home violent extremism?
REP. TURNER: Well, on the problem of New Orleans, we- we do not know but whether or not or not he- he’ll evolve as- because the precise lone wolf, the place he operated utterly alone. As Jim is saying, because the investigation unfolds, he himself indicated that he joined, as he claimed it, ISIS in the summertime. We do not know what that concerned. We do not know if it should end up that he was tasked- excuse me. He- he went to New Orleans additionally in October. There might have been alternatives or occasions at which he may have been discovered and will have been prevented. We’ll study what these are, and methods during which he might need been- been discovered, and possibly we may have intervened. But these will give us better alternatives at which we’ll look to how we’d be capable to, sooner or later, discover others.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now, we have spoken to each of you on this program, particularly in regards to the heightened risk atmosphere many occasions. And again in June, when there was that arrest of these eight males from Tajikistan who had been ISIS linked, we spoke in depth about that. Chair Turner, shortly after that, you mentioned on this program, “now we have terrorists which are actively working contained in the United States which are a risk to Americans.” Do you recognize if there are energetic terror cells within the United States proper now?
REP. TURNER: Well, I believe- I believe the problem of cells, and you might be speaking about that starting of the present, are there people which are affiliated with ISIS and terrorist teams and organizations which have crossed the border, which are contained in the United States? Director Wray, FBI director, has mentioned so, we definitely have intelligence that claims so, I agree along with his evaluation that- Jim has additionally seen it. He’s testified earlier than our committee publicly of that reality. Those people are working in conjunction with- with ISIS, with the intention of harming Americans. The director has mentioned it straight.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They are recognized to U.S. intelligence and legislation enforcement, is what you are telling me.
REP. TURNER: And we’re working diligently to attempt to take them down, to forestall them from doing so. And that is why the director is publicly saying such, and that is what the brand new administration goes to be handed the truth that these people are right here, that we have to find them, we have to take away them, we have to convey them to justice and forestall them from doing hurt to Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When now we have spoken about this problem prior to now, you characterised significantly the remainder of the eight as successful story, as a result of there was no plot carried out. They had been disrupted. Are the people which are of concern, do we all know the place they’re? In phrases of these eight they’re, we all know they had been detained, and 5 of them had been truly despatched again to Tajikistan.
REP. HIMES: You by no means know what you do not know. And so none of us, definitely in positions of duty, would ever say that there is not terrorists within the United States. Now, I’ll say what I mentioned earlier than, which is that now we have the perfect individuals and the perfect know-how trying to root these individuals out and discover them. But let’s- if the query is, what ought to Americans be afraid of? What has killed Americans since 9/11? It hasn’t been individuals sneaking throughout the border. And that is to not say that the border should not be safe–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Right.
REP. HIMES: The border have to be safe. But what has been killing Americans? whether or not it was Fort Hood in 2009 I believe whether or not it was the New York assaults that killed eight individuals in 2017 what we simply sad- sadly noticed in New Orleans. It’s truly Americans who’re on this nation, truly, in a weird variety of instances, service individuals. That was the Fort Hood assaults. That was what we noticed in New Orleans. That was, although I do not- it does not appear to be shaping up as a terrorist assault, what we noticed in Las Vegas. So once more, that is onerous, proper? Why is that tough? Because when you’re on this nation, you may have constitutional rights, which means the FBI cannot say with no warrant, I need your Facebook posts. I need your emails. That’s what makes this very onerous. And once more, let’s take a look at what has truly killed Americans within the 20 years, and sadly, it has been radicalized different Americans. So this will get to the query of, what are the mechanisms by which they’re radicalized, and the way can we as a group push again on that radicalism?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Which is why I requested you, that is a tougher drawback to unravel for.
REP. HIMES: Much tougher. Because you may have constitutional rights and since, you recognize, let me offer you an instance, if someone is standing out on the road nook proper now saying ISIS is the best factor on the planet, and the President is a traitor. That individuals would say, boy, we should always interview that individual. That is constitutionally protected speech. And I ponder how a few of my colleagues would reply to the concept, as a result of this particular person in New Orleans did put up some Facebook posts saying, I pledge allegiance to ISIS. You know what if we had that debate? Should- ought to Facebook have immediately submitted that to the FBI? And if that’s the case, the place’s the road if I say I’m not an enormous fan of the subsequent president, and I do not consider that he was, you recognize, no matter, ought to that go to the FBI? It’s a troublesome dialog.
REP. TURNER: Margaret, there is no query that- that- that’s what we’re seeing from New Orleans. But the reply to your query is, no, we do not know the place they’re. We do not know the place the individuals are that Director Wray has indicated–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –the individuals who have exploited vulnerabilites on the southwest border.
REP. TURNER: –that has come throughout the border, which are terrorists affiliated with ISIS that intend to do American harm- Americans hurt which are right here in our nation. We have no idea the place they’re. And a part of the work and a part of the rationale why he is elevating the alarm is we have to discover them to guard Americans. Now, what Jim’s saying is completely appropriate, and that that clearly, is the half that additionally breaks our coronary heart and makes what occurred in New Orleans so onerous is, is that we had an American who was killing Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. American born Army vet. I wish to ask you each about China as nicely. In phrases of conventional adversaries, they’re looming massive, right here. We realized simply prior to now few days that China hacked the U.S. Treasury Department. This is on prime of the main cyber espionage towards 9 telecom firms, towards hacking of US infrastructure that incoming National Security Adviser Mike Waltz mentioned was ‘planting cyber time bombs’ in U.S. infrastructure. How a lot of a trump card is that this? I imply, can the U.S. expel China from these techniques and get management?
REP. HIMES: So, I imply, let’s begin with what we all know. China has been completely predatory in nearly each dimension. They’ve stolen our IP- our IP, our mental property. You know, they’ve manipulated the buying and selling system to hole out our industrial base, completely predatory. And by the way in which, I occur to consider, and It’ll be attention-grabbing the chair, if the chairman agrees with me on this, they consider they will function inside our networks with out consequence, and that should change instantly. They want to know that we’re nearly as good at these items as they’re. And in the event that they get into our networks and begin planting beacons or begin planting landmines or no matter, we’ll do the identical to them, in order that we set up deterrence. Now you additionally must acknowledge that China does, and the U.S. do about $800 billion in commerce forwards and backwards, proper? And when you snap your fingers and make that go away, you assume COVID inflation was dangerous? Wait until you see that. By the way in which, they personal a trillion {dollars} of our treasury. So the purpose I’m making right here is that I believe we have to be so much more durable on them, on the areas during which they’re predatory towards us, at the same time as we acknowledge that there are areas the place we have to tread very rigorously, together with that financial interconnection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know that we’ll have you ever each again to speak about precisely this drawback. I’m out of time right this moment, however thanks–
REP. TURNER: –There must be penalties.
REP. HIMES: What he mentioned.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will keep tuned. Face the Nation will probably be again in a single minute. Stay with us.
