The following is the complete transcript of an interview with Senate Majority Leader John Thune, Republican of South Dakota, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Jan. 5, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for making time for us—
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Great to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: —on an enormous day for you.
SEN. THUNE: Thanks, Margaret, proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So let’s begin massive image. Republicans have unified management right here in Washington, however the House Republicans have a reasonably fractured caucus, a reasonably slender majority. How do you see that complicating the work you are in a position to get performed over right here within the Senate?
SEN. THUNE: Well, we need- clearly, as you stated, to get something performed, we now have to work as a group. And we now have unified management. We have the majorities within the House, the Senate, the White House, however the majority within the House is extremely slender, which creates some distinctive administration challenges. But they’ve labored round them, and we are going to work round them and work with the Trump administration, the President and his group, on an agenda that he campaigned on, and that lots of our colleagues right here within the Senate and the House campaigned on, and so we’re excited in regards to the alternative. Yes, it’s- these are uncommon circumstances with respect to the margins, significantly in the home, however we count on to ship on what the American folks requested us to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you suppose that’ll hamstring you when it comes to massive coverage modifications that you possibly can legislate round?
SEN. THUNE: I feel it’s- it’s- it is all the time difficult, and particularly in the- on this present political setting, you realize, folks have sturdy views, and as you may count on, and have seen, we do not all the time agree amongst Republicans, inside the household. But I feel—
MARGARET BRENNAN: Particularly amongst Republicans.
SEN. THUNE: —however what I- however I feel in terms of the massive points, securing the border, rebuilding the navy, strengthening the economic system, you realize, producing power dominance for this nation, these are all issues on which we agree. And so I feel as we proceed ahead, you realize, with respect to even slender margins, I feel we will have a- hopefully a really unified effort in terms of these core points. We’ll disagree on the margins and the method and all that kind of factor, however in terms of the issues we have to get performed for the American folks, that we expect transfer the nation in the appropriate path, these are all issues I feel we agree on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How usually do you communicate to the president elect?
SEN. THUNE: You know, pretty commonly. We’ve stayed in fairly good communication and call, each upfront of the election after which subsequent to it, and particularly now as we begin charting the trail ahead with- with the agenda, clearly getting session from him, from his group. We’re working carefully together with his group now as we begin to take management of the Senate now, within the House at this time, and hopefully within the subsequent couple of weeks earlier than he takes the oath of workplace, we’ll have issues arrange for him, together with the chance to substantiate plenty of his nominees.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How, or what function do you see JD Vance, Senator, soon-to-be Vice President-elect. Is he going to be the man kind of translating between the politics of the doable on the Hill and what the Trump agenda is?
SEN. THUNE: I feel JD is already performing that function, and I feel will proceed to. I feel, clearly, he has the President’s ear. He’s extensively revered by his colleagues right here within the Senate and within the House, I might add. And I feel he might be anyone who can assist the administration, as they work by these points, work out what’s sensible, what’s achievable, what we will accomplish right here within the Senate, as a result of he is been right here. He is aware of it is difficult—
(CROSSTALK BEGINS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Two years.
SEN. THUNE: —within the Senate- I do know, it is a quick period of time—
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just two years.
(END CROSSTALK)
SEN. THUNE: —however he is an extremely gifted individual, as you realize, very good and a fast examine. And I feel there- if there’s anyone who has been in a position to acclimate and perceive the, kind of the distinctive points of how the Senate operates in a brief period of time, it is him. But he is the President of the Senate, and I might count on that he’ll proceed to be somebody that acts as a, you realize, kind of an middleman with the- with the White House and the Senate and the House in attempting to implement the President’s agenda.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve had disagreements with Donald Trump previously, as a part of this Advise and Consent function, the function of the Senate. Will you inform him once you suppose he is improper?
SEN. THUNE: I’ll, and I feel my job is to do all the things I can to assist him obtain success, be a profitable president, which, for my part, implies that we’ll be a profitable nation. The issues that he talked about on the marketing campaign path, the issues that the American folks voted for, are all issues that I feel this President desires to get performed, we wish to get performed, and I say that our incentives are aligned. We have the identical set of targets. We wish to get to the identical vacation spot, however I feel at occasions, there might be variations in how we get there. And I feel I’ve to spell out as clearly as I can to anyone who asks, what the challenges are within the Senate. The Senate is a really completely different establishment. Clearly features completely different than the House of Representatives. And understanding the distinctive points of how the Senate operates is one thing that I’m going to have to have the ability to share and convey to the President and assist him perceive, I feel, what the- you realize, what the contours are, what we will accomplish right here within the Senate, and what’s sensible
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have a 53 seat majority over right here, which implies you’ll be able to solely lose three votes if Democrats stay unified of their opposition to a few of Mr. Trump’s picks for his cupboard. Do you count on all of them to make it by? And if that’s the case, how shortly?
SEN. THUNE: I feel, what I’ve promised is a good course of for all of them, and we’ll be certain that they get a affirmation listening to, a possibility to make their case, reply the exhausting questions that inevitably are going to return, and carry out the function that the Senate has when it comes to recommendation and consent. But I additionally consider that the President deserves- I defer to the President. I’m very- in terms of his picks, and I might say this of any president, they deserve plenty of latitude. And I feel that, you realize, his picks are going to return by a course of the place, in the event that they get reported out of the committee, come throughout the ground of the Senate, we’ll make it possible for they get the- the vote. And I feel that- I think plenty of them will get by. And- and we’ll see about all of them. Remains to be seen, however I feel that is why we now have the method, and we are going to adhere to that course of and provides all of those nominees a possibility to make their case.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve stated it’s a must to see if Democrats play ball or not, however you do not want Democrats to get these by. So does that imply you already know a few of your Republican senators will not vote to substantiate Kash Patel on the FBI or Pete Hegseth on the Pentagon?
SEN. THUNE: We do not have, at this level, I do not suppose, readability on that. I feel these are nominees who’re new sufficient, they have been going round and conducting their conferences, which I feel, frankly, have gone very effectively, however they nonetheless should make their case in entrance of the committee. And, you realize, we do not know all of the details about a few of these nominees. I feel we all know rather a lot about them, however they deserve a good course of, and that is what we have dedicated to and promised and- and I count on to ship on. And finally, whether or not or not they get by that course of is- goes to be as much as every particular person senator and the way they determine to vote. We have a 3 vote margin within the Senate, as you level out. But I do suppose that normally, at the very least, most of our Republican senators are inclined to offer the President the those that he desires in these positions, given, you realize, the method that they undergo and whether or not or not they will handle the committee course of and be certain that they get to the ground for vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does that embrace FBI background checks? I do know usually the rating members get them on armed companies, for instance, however a few of your colleagues, they wish to see Pete Hegseth’s FBI background examine earlier than they vote.
SEN. THUNE: Right, and I feel that is going to be decided largely by the committee chairs. I feel there might be an curiosity, clearly–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –would you encourage them?
SEN. THUNE: Well, certain. I imply, I feel that you simply wish to have as a lot background as doable that’s accessible to the committees as they make their selections. But I’ve plenty of confidence in our committee chairs. One of the issues that I’ve made a spotlight of, at the very least my management right here, is to get the committees functioning once more, in a method, guaranteeing that the committee chairs and particular person members of the committee have a possibility to ensure their voices are heard within the course of and that we make the most of the expertise that we now have on these particular person committees. So I’ve a excessive stage of confidence in our chairs that they are going to be certain that as members of the committee, and of the complete Senate, have a possibility to contemplate these nominees that they have all the data accessible to them that they need to have.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of your colleagues instructed me you’re a “rely the votes man.” You’re not a “twist the arm man.” Do you suppose that is truthful?
SEN. THUNE: Well, I feel that, you realize, generally it relies upon a little bit bit on what your function is. The job that I’ve held now for the final six years, the whip job, differs when you’re within the minority or within the majority. If you are within the majority, it is advisable to get the votes. You’re within the minority, you wish to know the place your vote rely is, and also you’re taking part in protection versus taking part in offense. They’re very completely different roles. But I do know, I consider how to- I perceive my members have labored with all of them for a very very long time, and I feel whether or not it is truly counting, and I feel we’re very correct in terms of counting. I take nice pleasure in that, and the team- the work the group has performed the final six years. But additionally it is vital to get the votes, and I consider when mandatory, we all know how to do this, and I’ve had to do this within the function that I’ve now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Joe Manchin, a now former senator, instructed us not too long ago on “Face the Nation”, that if you- his dad instructed him, “when you can say no with a tear in your eye, you are all good.” Do you agree with him on that?
SEN. THUNE: Well, I feel that, you realize I- what I’ve all the time stated is, and as a whip, each member’s vote is their vote. You ultimately cannot power anyone to vote, you realize, how they- towards what their- their needs are, what their constituents need them to do. So their vote is their vote. What I’ve all the time requested is that they not shock us, and that if they provide you- let you know one thing, that that is that that is their phrase and and also you count on them to stick to that. And that is type of all the time the way in which that I proceeded. And I feel there are occasions during which particular person senators, for state causes, and the constituents that they signify might come to a unique conclusion, and that is their proper. That’s their prerogative. And that is why my fashion, as I described, is clearly, it is persuasion. It’s attempting to get them to a spot the place, if doable, they will assist the group. But I perceive there are circumstances during which they are going to should replicate the views the those that elected them, and that’s- that is what this job finally, is about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Recess appointments. Bypassing the Senate solely. Would you ask Mr. Trump not to do this?
SEN. THUNE: Well, here is the factor, and also you requested earlier about cooperation from the Democrats. I do not suppose the Democrats are going to offer us any votes. I imply, I hope they do. And I feel they are going to on some- some nominees. I imply, I’ve bought sufficient suggestions, readouts, I feel, from a few of these conferences, and I feel that the a few of our the President’s nominees, will win Democrat votes, however by and enormous, their management–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Senator Rubio, for instance–
SEN. THUNE: –Sure, yeah. I imply–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –But Tulsi Gabbard?
SEN. THUNE: Well, however I imply–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Pete Hegseth, Kash Patel.
SEN. THUNE: We’ll see there’s a complete bunch of- of nominees, a few of whom can have extra Democrat assist than others. But I feel ultimately, the Democrat management, normally, might be not going to be largely supportive of a few of the President’s picks, with perhaps just a few exceptions. But what’s extra vital to me just isn’t how they finally vote. You’re proper. You pointed this out. We have a majority. If we get 51 votes, Republican votes, we will win most of those nominees, however it’s how a lot they drag that course of out. And I identified to those that when you return to President Obama, he had his first 12 Cabinet nominees in 15 days. It took President Trump 42 days and President Biden 50 days. So we’re shifting within the improper path in terms of giving a President the chance to get their folks in place as shortly as doable. And so what I’ve stated is we will preserve, you realize, the choices at our disposal to make it possible for we’re shifting in a method according to the way in which the Senate features and works that will get these of us a possibility to be voted on within the Senate.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ask you about what it is advisable to get performed coverage sensible as effectively, when it comes to offering the president the funding to execute on a few of his massive targets.
SEN. THUNE: Right
MARGARET BRENNAN: You stated you are going to exit of the gate with a generation- “a generational funding in border safety and immigration enforcement.” You’re going to go it on 51 celebration line votes. If you wish to govern by common order, why undergo this in a celebration line path?
SEN. THUNE: Well, it is a type of points that has grow to be extremely divisive for the nation, and there aren’t very many individuals left within the center. Reconciliation allows us. It would not come alongside fairly often the place you could have unified management of the federal government. In plenty of instances, it would not final very lengthy. It’s a few years. The Democrats supplied a template within the final couple of years for tips on how to broaden the scope of what is accessible to get performed by the reconciliation course of. It’s the one course of within the Senate that allows you to enact laws with a 51 vote threshold, versus 60.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SEN. THUNE: And so immigration, the border–
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, it is out of the gate saying, we’re not going to work with Democrats.
SEN. THUNE: Well, I’m not saying what- they got here out of the gate. They had their first reconciliation invoice performed in 4 weeks approaching it after they bought the bulk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: $2 trillion–
SEN. THUNE: Well,
MARGARET BRENNAN: –with the COVID invoice and also you did not prefer it.
SEN. THUNE: $2 trillion–
[crosstalk]
MARGARET BRENNAN: –you faulted them for utilizing reconciliation–
SEN. THUNE: 11:01:11 – and another- one other trillion with the IRA.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.
SEN. THUNE: It could be supreme if we might work out a approach to do issues on the 60 vote threshold and there are a selection of issues we are going to. I imply, there are a selection of points the place we will should get 60 votes. We should get 60 votes on appropriation payments. We should get 60 votes on 60 votes on a farm invoice, which is expired. Those are going to be bipartisan initiatives, however there are some issues that you are able to do. And the Democrats, once more, created the template for doing this with how they did the IRA and the American Rescue Plan for performing some issues at 51 and we expect {that a} generational funding within the border is critical, given the place we’re after the final 4 years of a what I feel is a really failed Biden Harris border coverage. And I feel there is not anyone who objectively would not agree with that. 10 and a half million folks coming throughout the border illegally, together with plenty of very unsavory of us, members of terrorist organizations and felony parts and cartels, and many others.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you realize they’re members of terrorist organizations? Here on U.S. soil?
SEN. THUNE: Sure. Yeah. Well, I’m saying they have been apprehended there. We know that there are nearly 300 which have been apprehended which are on the terrorist watch checklist.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SEN. THUNE: And I feel in the event that they’ve apprehended that many, I think plenty of them have gotten by.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are 1.4 million folks right here with deportation orders, orders of removing towards them. I’ve seen numbers that put the price of expelling them at between $80 to $100 billion yearly. Can you get that type of cash within the first 100 days?
SEN. THUNE: Well, I feel that what we’re attempting to do is get an evaluation from the people who find themselves going to be in place. They’re going to be implementing plenty of the President’s insurance policies in terms of the border decide what that- that useful resource allocation goes to wish.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They do not know but.
SEN. THUNE: Well, I feel that what we do know is we’d like bodily obstacles. We want technological obstacles. We want extra ICE brokers. We want extra Border Patrol brokers. And sure, we will want methods of deporting folks which are on that- on that checklist that you simply talked about. And so it is going to take some sources to do this, which is why I might argue that when the President takes workplace and he’ll do plenty of issues on the border by govt order, by govt motion, that we will want to have the ability to present the sources to ensure that him to do this. And that is why I’ve recommended that we take that border problem on straight away and allow him to do the issues that- that he must do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it true you are going to put some protection spending in that as effectively?
SEN. THUNE: Well, I feel one of many issues that we all the time argue about round right here is the sum of money that we have to spend on protection. And clearly that is a matter the place when you have a look at each Biden administration funds, there wasn’t a single considered one of them when it got here to navy spending that got here up- stored up even with inflation. So we now have a navy readiness on this nation. You know, we now have the protection technique or fee, protection fee technique group that comes out with report on a regular basis and tells us we’re dramatically underfunded relative to international locations like China–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those must be bipartisan points, proper?
SEN. THUNE: And that we do not have the capability effectively, and we do not have the capability and the potential to do what must be performed to guard the nation. So, I- my argument could be, and sure, these must be bipartisan, however there- it is rather troublesome, in my expertise round right here, there is a massive distinction in Delta, within the two events and the way they method the difficulty of protection and, you realize, and navy readiness. And I feel we’re dramatically underfunding our navy at this time. I feel the President believes that, President Trump, and I feel plenty of our Republican colleagues within the House, the Senate, share that view. So can we do that by reconciliation? We’re clearly taking a look at our choices.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ensure I ask you in regards to the different massive promise you made when it comes to delivering on tax reform and reconciliation. The estimates are it might add $4 trillion over the subsequent decade. Is that basically one thing you suppose goes to go on a celebration line vote and with none income or spending cuts? You cannot be snug.
SEN. THIUNE:
Well- there- there are- its present coverage. So it’s- it’s these are- these are tax legal guidelines that may expire on the finish of this yr if Congress would not take motion to increase them, and it will signify a $4 trillion tax improve on the American folks if we do not prolong that coverage. We’re going to have a really sturdy dialog about tax reform. I used to be an enormous a part of it again in 2017 once we did the preliminary Trump tax cuts. And this time round, there’s rather a lot using on it. There’s rather a lot using on it economically. I feel regulatory coverage, tax coverage, power coverage, are going to be actually important to the power of the- our economic system, how briskly we will develop and broaden and create higher paying jobs on this nation. So I’m an enormous believer in pro-growth tax coverage. I consider you get plenty of that again by development and extra income each 1 p.c–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Not tariffs as Mr. Trump has promised?
SEN. THUNE: Well, that’s- that is a unique topic, however I might say each 1 p.c improve in GDP and financial development, we’re instructed, generates about $3 trillion in further tax income. So you are going to get some again when it comes to a development dividend, and there might be spending cuts. There’s no query about it. Our members in each the House and the Senate wish to be certain that once we do tax reform by reconciliation, that it additionally contains important reductions in spending, significantly in sure areas. And I feel that is one thing that as we work by this, we’ll work out a method to do that in a method that hopefully evokes 51 votes within the Senate and 218 within the House to get this throughout the end line.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But going out of the gate with two massive points on celebration line votes – aren’t you involved that may blow up your possibilities at working with Democrats on a few of these larger immigration points or larger insurance policies?
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Well, I feel we- we have to proceed to work on these massive coverage points, however I additionally suppose we now have some rapid issues – issues that have to be addressed – considered one of which is nationwide safety, given the more and more harmful world during which we dwell. And in fact, I might argue that begins with the border. So border, nationwide safety. I feel power coverage, power dominance is a large goal and purpose, and I might hope {that a} reconciliation invoice might additionally deal with that problem. If we do one thing on taxes, that historically has been- previously, the Democrats did it twice whereas that they had the bulk within the final session of the Congress, they did two massive reconciliation payments, each of which did plenty of tax coverage, spending coverage, and many others.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Trump did that in 2017 too, with taxes.
SEN JOHN THUNE: And that is – and each side have performed it. And that’s- that is the distinctive facet of getting unified management of the federal government. You can do issues within the Senate at 51 votes. But I feel these are all vital, and they’re issues that, as a rustic, if we do not get proper, I worry what the outcomes and the end result might be. You cannot have a $4 trillion improve in taxes on the American folks on the finish of this yr if Congress would not act. I feel that may be a very compelling, you realize, highly effective incentive for members of Congress to return collectively and work constructively in a unified method as a group to get a few of these issues performed. And sure, it would be supreme when you might do it bipartisan. I hope that there are some Democrats who would vote for a few of the tax insurance policies that we now have, however I’m not- I’m not anticipating that in the mean time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Leader, it’s fantastic to be right here with you and to have the time, and I hope we will have extra conversations sooner or later.
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Sounds good. Thanks Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s much more to cowl.
SEN. JOHN THUNE: Great to be with you. Thank you. Happy New Year.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Happy New Year to you.
